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(Batuhan Burak) #3147

B├Âyle bir erkek bulursam paslamam :slight_smile:


(Batuhan Burak) #3148

Sadece e┼čle┼čtirmeler do─čru, geri kalan bilgiler yanl─▒┼č, MardukÔÇÖun k├Âkeni ile di─čer tanr─▒lar─▒n k├Âkeni ayn─▒ de─čil. G├╝nlerde hatalar var, cermenler thorÔÇÖa de─čil DonarÔÇÖa tapar.


(Gazi Audomarus Fridia DCLXVI PFVV Pipinpadaloxicopolis the First) #3149

Bahsedilen bu de─čil. El-Mu┼čteriÔÇÖyle (mitolojik fig├╝rlerle kar─▒┼čmas─▒n diye bu ismi kullan─▒yorum) ili┼čkilendirilen mitolojik fig├╝rlerden bahsediyor. Yoksa Thor da Dyos PhitarÔÇÖ─▒n bir versiyonu de─čil.


(Batuhan Burak) #3150

Bahsetti─či y─▒ld─▒z olay─▒ zeusÔÇÖu ThorÔÇÖu kapsamamaktad─▒r. F─▒rt─▒na Tanr─▒lar─▒ olarak bu iki tanr─▒ Marduk ve J├╝piter ile k─▒yaslanamaz, orijinleri astronomik de─čil atmosferiktir. oysa Ven├╝s ├╝zerinden gitseydi do─čruydu.


(Salih Alp G├Âk├žek ) #3151

Thor, Thunor, Donar gibi isim k├Âkleri; Germen tanr─▒s─▒ ThunrazÔÇÖdan k├Âken al─▒yor. ─░├žlerinde en bilinen isim de Thor oldu─ču i├žin, bu ┼čekilde ifade etmesi normal. Hepsi ayn─▒ kap─▒ya ├ž─▒k─▒yor zaten.


(Gazi Audomarus Fridia DCLXVI PFVV Pipinpadaloxicopolis the First) #3152

Bildi─čim kadar─▒yla ZeusÔÇÖu kaps─▒yor, ThorÔÇÖu bilemeyece─čim ama. J├╝piter ve Zeus Pitar zaten ayn─▒ tanr─▒.


(Salih Alp G├Âk├žek ) #3153

Thor J├╝piterÔÇÖe denk geliyor ki zaten. Orada bilgi hatas─▒ yok.


(Batuhan Burak) #3154

Zeus Pitar sentez bir tanr─▒ ve bunu Helen ZeusÔÇÖu ile k─▒yaslamak, ─░ran mithras─▒ ile Roma Mithras─▒n─▒n ayn─▒ varl─▒k oldu─čunu s├Âylemek gibi kal─▒r.
Zeus tamamen atmosferik kavramlar─▒n ki┼čile┼čtirilmesidir. ThorÔÇÖda keza ayn─▒ ┼čekildedir. Ama Marduk veya Baal astronomik d├Âng├╝lerin ekseninde ki┼čile┼čtirilmi┼č f─▒rt─▒na tanr─▒lar─▒d─▒r.
Denk gelemezler julius sezardan beri ayn─▒ bilgi kirlili─či mevcut :)))


(Salih Alp G├Âk├žek ) #3155

Burada direk e┼čle┼čtirmeler yok, kar┼č─▒l─▒k geldi─čini belirtme durumu var.


(Batuhan Burak) #3156

Ben ba┼člang─▒├žtaki y─▒ld─▒z meselesini ele┼čtiriyorum, bu mitolojinin niteli─čini ├žok etkiliyor ├ž├╝nk├╝


(Gazi Audomarus Fridia DCLXVI PFVV Pipinpadaloxicopolis the First) #3157

B├Âyle bir ili┼čki kurmam─▒z yanl─▒┼č olur.

Hay─▒r, Zeus, Hint-Avrupa mitolojisinin baba tanr─▒s─▒ DieusÔÇÖun devam─▒d─▒r.


(Batuhan Burak) #3158

Zeus Ortado─ču k├Âkenli bir tanr─▒d─▒r diye biliyorum, baba Tanr─▒ kavram─▒n─▒n mevcudiyetini de tart─▒┼č─▒l─▒r bulurum, baba Tanr─▒n─▒n ismi ├žok Latin geliyor bu arada, Helen ve Helen ├Âncesi medeniyetlerden kalmad─▒─č─▒ a┼čikar bir kelime gibi geliyor bana.


(Salih Alp G├Âk├žek ) #3159

ÔÇťThe name is derived from Old English ├×┼źnresd├Žg and Middle English Thuresday (with loss of -n-, first in northern dialects, from influence of Old Norse ├×orsdagr) meaning ÔÇťThorÔÇÖs DayÔÇŁ. It was named after the Norse god of Thunder, Thor. Thunor, Donar (German, Donnerstag) and Thor are derived from the name of the Germanic god of thunder, Thunraz, equivalent to Jupiter in the interpretatio romana.ÔÇŁ


(Gazi Audomarus Fridia DCLXVI PFVV Pipinpadaloxicopolis the First) #3160

The godÔÇÖs name in the nominative is ╬ľ╬Á¤Ź¤é Ze├║s. It is inflected as follows: vocative: ╬ľ╬Áß┐Ž Ze├╗; accusative: ╬ö╬»╬▒ D├şa; genitive: ╬ö╬╣¤î¤é Di├│s; dative: ╬ö╬╣╬» Di├ş. Diogenes Laertius quotes Pherecydes of Syros as spelling the name, ╬ľ╬Ȥé.[18]

Zeus is the Greek continuation of *Di╠»─ôus, the name of the Proto-Indo-European god of the daytime sky, also called *Dyeus ph2t─ôr (ÔÇťSky FatherÔÇŁ).[19][20] The god is known under this name in the Rigveda (Vedic Sanskrit Dyaus/Dyaus Pita), Latin (compare Jupiter, from Iuppiter, deriving from the Proto-Indo-European vocative *dyeu-ph2t─ôr),[21] deriving from the root *dyeu- (ÔÇťto shineÔÇŁ, and in its many derivatives, ÔÇťsky, heaven, godÔÇŁ).[19] Zeus is the only deity in the Olympic pantheon whose name has such a transparent Indo-European etymology.[22]

The earliest attested forms of the name are the Mycenaean Greek ­ÉÇç­ÉÇŞ, di-we and ­ÉÇç­ÉÇ║, di-wo, written in the Linear B syllabic script.[23]

Orjininin Hint-Avrupa k├Âkenli oldu─ču en belirgin tanr─▒ Zeus.


(Batuhan Burak) #3161

Bilgi eksikli─čimi giderdi─čin i├žin te┼čekk├╝r ederim ama yinede G├Âk Baba olarak nitelendirilen Zeus atmosfer orijinlidir, bunu da belirtiyor, ├žo─ču g├Âksel tanr─▒ da erildir zaten. M─▒s─▒r hari├ž


(Gazi Audomarus Fridia DCLXVI PFVV Pipinpadaloxicopolis the First) #3162

Asl─▒nda atmosfer demekten daha ├žok, rekonstr├╝kte edebildi─čimiz kadar─▒yla Hint-Avrupa toplulu─čunun kat─▒ aile hiyerar┼čisinin mitolojik yans─▒mas─▒ demek daha do─čru olur. Elbette g├Âksellik de bu mitosun ├Ânemli bir par├žas─▒ ama ZeusÔÇÖu var eden s├╝re├ž bu diyemeyiz.

Be─čeni hakk─▒m yok bu arada, g├╝zel bir konu┼čma oldu.


(Batuhan Burak) #3163

Ger├žekten g├╝zel muhabbet oluyor.
Bu durumda da yine Zeus bahsetti─čin ┼čekilde d├╝┼č├╝n├╝rsek sadece J├╝piter ile uyu┼čan pozisyonda bulunuyor, Thor ve Marduk bu ├žemberin d─▒┼č─▒nda kal─▒yor. ├ľzellikle h├╝k├╝mdar baba fig├╝r├╝nden ziyade ideal kahraman fig├╝r├╝ olan Thor ├žok d─▒┼č─▒nda kal─▒yor bu ├žemberin.


(Salih Alp G├Âk├žek ) #3164

├çok da d─▒┼č─▒nda kalm─▒yor sanki:

ÔÇťThe name is derived from Old English ├×┼źnresd├Žg and Middle English Thuresday (with loss of -n-, first in northern dialects, from influence of Old Norse ├×orsdagr) meaning ÔÇťThorÔÇÖs DayÔÇŁ. It was named after the Norse god of Thunder, Thor. Thunor, Donar (German, Donnerstag) and Thor are derived from the name of the Germanic god of thunder, Thunraz, equivalent to Jupiter in the interpretatio romana.ÔÇŁ

Bu da Marduk ile J├╝piter alakas─▒ hakk─▒nda bir yaz─▒:

ÔÇťIn Worlds in Collision (1950), Velikovsky made a similar claim about the Pillar of Fire from Exodus, attributing it to showers of flame from Venus mistaken for Marduk-Jupiter. Obviously, the claim violates the laws of physics as we know them today.

JupiterÔÇÖs name comes from the Latin, of course. Jupiter was the chief of the Roman gods, and his name comes from an elided form of Deus Pater > ÔÇÖIu Pater > Iuppiter, God the Father. In turn, this derives from the proto-Indo-European name Dyeus peter, referring to the god of the shining daytime sky. He survives also as Dyaus, the Vedic sky god; as Tyr, the Norse god; and of course as Zeus, the chief Greek god. But this deity was not a storm god at first and only became so after 1200 BCE, during the period when the Greeks merged Zeus with the Near Eastern storm god, probably due to influence from Tarhun (Teshub), the chief of the Hittite pantheon. His parallel gods in Norse and Vedic myth were not the storm gods of their pantheons (Thor and Indra respectively).

So that line takes us nowhere. Instead, we have to turn to where the Romans got the idea to name the planet after their chief god. That, in turn, comes from Babylon, where the planet had already been named for Marduk, the chief Babylonian god. Eusebius, citing Alexander Polyhistor citing Berosus, explained that Marduk was Jupiter, or rather, more specifically, BelusÔÇöthe Greco-Roman name for Marduk, taken from his title as Baal, or LordÔÇöwas identical with Zeus-Jupiter.

Marduk was associated with lightning and storms. He uses lightning as a weapon in the Enuma Elish, for example, and he rides in a storm chariot. So why did he become assigned to the planet Jupiter? One of the obvious reasons is that Jupiter is the third brightest object in the night sky, behind the moon and Venus. JupiterÔÇÖs apparent twelve-year trek around the ecliptic became an important way Babylonian astrologers marked the zodiac, making the planet the ÔÇťrulerÔÇŁ of the zodiac and thus the cosmos. The Enuma Elish reports that the Babylonians believed that Marduk established the celestial station of Nibir (or Nibiru), where Jupiter was opposite the sun, and thus the cosmic throne ruling over the zodiac.ÔÇŁ


(Batuhan Burak) #3165

Thunraz ile J├╝piterÔÇÖin denk oldu─ču yorumu ├žok ├╝zerinde d├╝┼č├╝n├╝lmesi gereken bir konu, thunrazÔÇÖ─▒n mitolojisinde kar┼č─▒lad─▒─č─▒ sosyal konumu bilmiyorum lakin Thor h├╝k├╝mdar baba de─čildir. Woden veya Odin bu sosyal konumda daha ├žok yer kaplamaktad─▒r. Bu y├╝zden Akdeniz havzas─▒ d─▒┼č─▒ pantheonlar ile Akdeniz pantheonlar─▒ do─črudan kar┼č─▒l─▒k bulamaz.


(Salih Alp G├Âk├žek ) #3166

Payla┼čt─▒─č─▒m Twitter g├Ânderisi ├žok teknik bir hitabete sahip de─čil, genel bilgi vermek istemi┼č. Bahsetti─či denklikler de direk e┼čitlik de─čil, benzerlikler ├╝zerine kurulu. Ki k├Âkten yanl─▒┼č denebilecek bilgiler de de─čil.